The Vital Veda Podcast: Ayurveda | Holistic Health | Cosmic and Natural Law
The Vital Veda Podcast is a show for people who intend to live the most evolutionary life at their highest potential, while experiencing total wellness and bliss.
Our host Dylan Smith brings you the most inspiring interviews with thought leaders and experts from around the world in the fields of health, spirituality, personal development and natural law.
Dylan Smith is an Ayurvedic practitioner, holistic health educator and exponent of Vedic wisdom. He is devoted to learning, sharing and radiating this profound knowledge for everyone to utilise and enjoy.
Enliven your natural capability to tune into your own body and mind, awaken your instincts and engage in life in a frictionless flow.
Find out more at www.vitalveda.com.au
The Vital Veda Podcast: Ayurveda | Holistic Health | Cosmic and Natural Law
The Ancient Wisdom Behind a Cup of Chai: Ayurveda, Ritual & Healing | Mira Manek $147
Step into the aromatic world of Indian chai with Mira Manek, author of The Book of Chai and founder of Chai by Mira. In this episode, we trace the surprising history of how tea became India’s most beloved beverage - through colonial trade routes, opium, and clever British marketing.
Mira shares chai-making secrets passed down through generations: from the Ayurvedic ritual of boiling milk three times, to unlocking spice potency with proper preparation (spoiler: whole ginger slices won’t cut it). You’ll learn why different Indian regions brew chai in unique ways, and how spices like cardamom and saffron offer profound medicinal benefits.
This is more than a conversation about tea, it’s a journey through heritage, healing, and the unseen wisdom in everyday rituals. Whether you're a lifelong chai lover or simply curious about the deeper stories steeped in your cup, this episode will enrich your connection to this timeless tradition.
IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
☕️ How British marketing and the opium trade shaped Indian chai culture
☕️ Family chai rituals and spice secrets passed down through generations
☕️ The Ayurvedic approach to chai
☕️ Medicinal benefits of chai spices like cardamom, ginger, clove, and saffron
☕️ Regional chai variations across India and the logic behind them (yes, even salty Kashmiri chai)
☕️ How to make chai a deeper, more mindful ritual in your day
ABOUT OUR GUEST: Mira Manek
Mira Manek is an author, wellness coach and expert, and has her own chai brand. Her third book, The Book of Chai, follows on from the success of her first two books, bestselling cookbook Saffron Soul and a book on Ayurveda and happiness called Prajna. Mira was born and raised in London, where she grew up in a large joint family with her grandparents, strongly rooted in their Indian heritage. She grew up speaking Gujarati, learned Sanskrit at school and has travelled extensively in India, inspiring her passion for Indian philosophy and spirituality, chai and chaiwalas, Indian food and spices, and especially Ayurveda.
RESOURCES:
Mira Manek’s Website: miramanek.com
Chai by Mira (chai blends & products): chaibymira.com
Books by Mira Manek:
- The Book of Chai
- Saffron Soul
- Prajna: Ayurvedic Rituals for Happiness
Mira Manek’s Instagram: @miramanek
Vital Veda Podcast Episode: "The Ancient and Stimulating Spice Industry" with Ian 'Herbie' Hemphill
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This time on the Vital Raider podcast. Give us a history of the black tea.
Speaker 2:The British got addicted to tea when they were trading it with silver from China, and that got too expensive. So they started growing opium in India and exchanging that for tea. That created the sort of opium wars, because the emperor of China didn't want his people getting addicted to opium and so put a ban on opium. But the British kept smuggling it in because they love tea so much.
Speaker 1:So this was in when 1700s.
Speaker 2:So it's only in the early 1900s that the British realized they want to create another market for tea, and they started marketing tea to Indians.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Vital Vader podcast. I'm your host, Dylan Smith. I'm an Ayurvedic practitioner and holistic health educator and I'm joined by Meera Manek, who's an author of three published books. One of them is Saffron Soul. One of them is Pragya Ayurvedic rituals for happiness, and the other one is the book of chai. Wow, a whole book on chai Indian tea, masala chai which actually technically didn't originate in India, but now it is very Indian and we're going to go all into chai. Mira is the founder of the chai spice brand, Chai by Mira, which we talk about and how that's proliferating all around England and beyond, and she's a speaker and Ayurveda and also a speaker on wellness. So we're going to get into this. I hope you enjoy the episode. Let us know what you think, Grab a cup of chai whatever chai you like and enjoy. Great to be in person.
Speaker 2:I know Lovely to meet you, Dylan, properly.
Speaker 1:And a lot of divine alignments with meeting in Wales I know lovely to meet you, dylan properly and a lot of divine alignments with meeting in. Wales, I know On the other side of this island of the UK.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:And you know, when I saw someone who wrote a book on chai or a book, when I saw a book, the book of chai really got me going. It was like, wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:And we sit here drinking chai?
Speaker 1:yes, yes, I had to make a chai for you, and so tell me, first of all, what's your favorite beverage?
Speaker 2:it has to be chai, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be. I like hot drinks and I love spices. So whatever concoction it is, sometimes it will have a bit of saffron. Sometimes it may not even have tea leaves, it might just have spices. So I love some sort of concoction with spices. That's definitely my favorite beverage. Some spices in hot milk.
Speaker 1:Did you grow up having any beverage particularly?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I grew up having something called ukaro which is also in my book which is basically a chai without the tea leaves, so it's hot milk, a bit of hot water boiled together with powdered spices, which is similar to my spice blend, and with a bit of sugar. And so when in the in the weekend mornings, when I want something with my toast, when my mother was having a cup of chai, I'd have that and we call it okaro, which means just boiled milk with spices.
Speaker 1:What language is Okaro?
Speaker 2:Okaro is Gujarati, okay, yeah so I used.
Speaker 1:I've sometimes made okaro, I mean spice milk without chai, because I don't usually bring black tea. So when I'm at a friend's I do it and I've had some Indians like kind of scold me, like my Indian friends in Australia, like come on like you said you're making chai, then there's no black tea. I miss it.
Speaker 2:But okay, now you know the name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's cool something we're gonna go all about chai. It's history, um, and just tell us a bit about yourself, because you seem I mean, you're quite a powerhouse. You're doing talks around the world. I guess you're doing public talks. You have a chai brand, chai by Mira right? Yes, you've written three books. What is your main drive now? Where is your heart right now in your career?
Speaker 2:Wow. Well, my heart is definitely in helping and trying to spread the message of living in the most holistic way, understanding that our bodies need to be in tune with nature and that we have to. Understanding that our bodies need to be in tune with nature and that we have to listen to our bodies. But also the toxic overload that we still keep hearing more and more about. But also that the older we get, the more we realize that we're inhaling, we're consuming so much more of these things and trying to minimize that because we live in a world where, you know, when iowa there was written, there was none of these things. So how do we marry sort of the Ayurvedic living with? It's as much about what you're putting into your body as it is about what you're not putting into your body. So I'm really really quite passionate about that.
Speaker 2:And secondly, my main business, which is the Chai Spice Blends, supplying them to cafes and restaurants around England but also around the world, and I really want to grow that. I will keep writing books. My last one came out last year. My second book was about Ayurveda. My first was a cookbook. My last one was about chai and that only came out last year, but I don't know when the next one is, but I would like for it to be on some element of healthy living.
Speaker 1:And how did you get into Ayurveda?
Speaker 2:How did I get into Ayurveda? Many years ago, when I was a teenager late teens, early 20s I was traveling a lot in India and every time I went my father would be like why don't you also go to this Ayurvedic resort? Or why don't you go and check out this place? Because he was very much into spas and into the Ayurvedic spas. I then started going to these Ayurvedic resorts and doing treatments, not really understanding that Ayurveda is a way of life. I just thought of it as a spa. I literally thought I'd go to a destination. It's only later in life.
Speaker 2:So I did all these things. I didn't realize that it's a way of life and that maybe the way that I grew up or that my grandfather always lived was an Ayurvedic way of living, or the way we cook is also Ayurvedic. So we had elements of Ayurveda in the way we live. As with most Indians or many Indians, it's just that it's not just about what you eat, it's also about how, when. And all of that came later. That came actually close at the time when I was writing the book and I was trying to bring about a way of living according to India as opposed to other parts of the world. And in that I realized wait, this is Ayurveda. And that's how the book was sort of born. And I did a course before that on Ayurveda because I was so interested in it.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. Yeah, I love the way you bring it to the West and making it very relevant. So you used to do also supper clubs.
Speaker 2:Yeah so.
Speaker 1:I heard about this in podcasts. I was listening and I never heard of it before. So do you still do that? Because it sounds like a great community event.
Speaker 2:I used to love doing supper clubs. I haven't done them in a while. I used to do them quite a while ago, in fact, I did do one after COVID. But I do love supper clubs. They bring people together. It's a way to sort of show your food or for people to get together over a shared love of food. And not only that, but you sit next to people that you wouldn't in a restaurant. You wouldn't speak to the strangers, whereas in a supper club you'll speak to all the strangers, whereas in a supper club you'll speak to all the strangers. And the first one I went to years and years ago that I attended because that's when they were sort of becoming or starting in London I actually went alone and I made a couple of friends there. So I just love that they bring people together. I also love that I can make it's like my restaurant for the night. I haven't done it in a long time, though, but I do love the idea of supper clubs.
Speaker 1:So I want to get into chai. I think for me I didn't realize how many chai's there were after actually when reading your book and I think for me and I guess a lot of people, when they think kind of one chai is around India and of course things differ like does, I guess, other beverages.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like your book, so I read your book. How many chai recipes?
Speaker 2:do you have 60, including the food? How many chai itself? I think probably probably 30 or something.
Speaker 1:Wow, 30 chai.
Speaker 2:I should know exactly how many so some of the ones that I because.
Speaker 1:So when I read your book, I was stoked. I actually listened to the audio book, which I liked, and then came with a PDF of recipes. Amazing, I knew I would interview one, so I said okay before this book.
Speaker 2:I was stoked.
Speaker 1:I actually listened to the audio book, which I liked, and then came with a pdf of recipes so amazing uh, I, I knew I would interview once, so I said, okay, before this I want to make all the different chais. So every day I was making a different chai from your book and I'm not at all a recipe person. So so I, there was the kesar chai which is kesar is saffron and lily.
Speaker 2:Lily is the green leaves, so lemon grass.
Speaker 1:Yes, that was new, that was nice.
Speaker 2:But it's not the lemon grass that you find in Thailand. It's the lemon grass that's sort of flat and they're kind of sharp leaves, and then you chop them up and you boil them and then you can put them in the freezer and then you can make whatever you like, tul Tulsi chai.
Speaker 1:Just plain chai with tulsi and tej pata is the bay leaves. Yes, bay leaves that was fascinating, and curry pata.
Speaker 2:Curry pata is curry leaves. That's my favourite one. I should have brought some curry leaves for us today. I have to say that's my favourite. I turn to that one most often.
Speaker 1:Wow, I need to try that. Do you get curry leaves? Do you buy them or do you forage them? We get them in.
Speaker 2:Indian shops here, yeah, but they're actually very fresh. No, they do grow here. We have a plant at home, but we don't have enough, so I get them from the Indian shops and they are very fresh and they're very, very good. As in, they look very so we put them in the freezer and I use them all the time. They're so good for you and I use them in everything.
Speaker 1:I actually put them in the. I sort of saute them a bit so I can put them onto all my dishes. But also chai with curry leaves, yeah, what do you? What are the benefits of curry leaves?
Speaker 2:well, they're very good for the hair that I know they have high in antioxidants.
Speaker 1:I don't know beyond that, but I know they're very good for immunity yes, and they're so abundant like I at least when it can grow well In Australia. I don't understand why they cost so much. I don't know about here if they're expensive, but for the fresh leaves. But a tree is like massive, it's like a big mature tree.
Speaker 2:So we'll always go and do a big harvest of the trees that are abundant and make a potty, so we'll dry them out and dry the leaves out and mix with spices and make a powder and then we sprinkle that on our food or our rice, but I love curry leaves. Well, I should have brought you some today. They're so good. I haven't had them since I've been in the UK, except the dried, which hardly taste.
Speaker 2:You can also make a really good curry leaf chutney, and that's a good way of getting more curry leaves into your body, because it's hard to chew on them, right? So when you make a chutney, it works.
Speaker 1:Some people leave curry leaves on the plate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everyone does, I don't.
Speaker 1:No, but if you fry them well, as you said, in the oil or the ghee you saute, they become crispy.
Speaker 2:It's hard, but because if, for example, if you're making a dal and you put the, even if you saute them, they'll become sort of soft in the in, so you will leave it at the end which I mean I don't, but it's still hard to chew that.
Speaker 1:Okay, I always eat them. So there's a very interesting thing, phenomena. You said, is this from your book? Popal tea with salt. So in I think it's kashmir. They add salt to chai, do you? You had a recipe with salt yes, yes, yes, yes so in ayurveda there's a common thing incompatible food combinations, which is virudhana.
Speaker 2:So one of them is milk and salt incompatible I saw that you posted, you saw the real, I did. I saw the real and I was like I did not know this, this is a very common virudhana.
Speaker 1:Of course we'll talk about the history of chai and how it really isn't actually Indian right.
Speaker 1:The origins aren't so that reel so for those who are listening, I did a reel about in one of the famous chai shops in Lucknow. Have you heard of that? It's called Sharma's Chai. It's by this Brahmin who's been serving chai for ages. It's like popular and I did a reel there and went a bit viral and had a lot of kind of you know people upset and obviously that's okay because I was saying don't drink chai with your samosa and stuff and um but also a lot of people were sharing, sharing to have you know.
Speaker 1:In Kashmir they add salt to chai, so they're definitely creating some Tejas, some Agni, some fire and definitely there's some wisdom to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in Kashmir and in the higher mountainous regions, because it gives them the sort of salt that they lose at that height. Right Altitude.
Speaker 1:So yeah, this is an interesting thing, and even the incompatible food combinations, which there's a bunch of in Ayurveda, some areas can develop a customization to it which is what we call in Ayurveda Satmya or Kasatmya.
Speaker 1:It's like for example, there's a village near Hyderabad where I stay, which has eats a lot of milk and fish together and that's also one of the incompatible like the real, because there's like fruit and yogurt and there's some things which even mixing different fruits, like sweet and sour fruit, is also incompatible like the real, because there's like fruit and yogurt and there's some things which even mixing different fruits, like sweet and sour fruit, is also incompatible, like having mango with oranges.
Speaker 1:but it's not the worst thing, and there's more worse things that people are doing in their diet. But fish and milk or milk and salt are kind of one of the more significant ones. However, there are these villages or these communities that have developed a customisation. It doesn't mean it's good for them, but it's not as bad.
Speaker 2:So I think that, from what I believe and feel, maybe that's what's happening in these higher mountain areas and Lucknow can get cold in the winter months, so that might be why I'm not sure if it's in luck. It wasn't in Lucknow when I was there. Oh, that might be why I'm not sure if it's in like it wasn't in Lucknow when I was there. It was just that combining the chai with the samosa, because it's still salt in here it's drinking milk coffee with avocado and toasted salt.
Speaker 1:Oh I see.
Speaker 2:So just mixing in the same it should be leaving a gap, or even having a coffee or anything with milk. Okay, that's interesting see, one of.
Speaker 1:I mean, of course, the biggest one is heating honey, that's the most.
Speaker 2:Is that the worst? Yeah, I know that that's the worst.
Speaker 1:That's the most prevalent and it's said to be poisonous in Ayurveda, and it's not something that Ayurveda does lightly.
Speaker 2:Uses the word poison.
Speaker 1:So a few things with your chai before I go into the tea which I'm really curious to go into the history of black tea. First of all for ginger, one of the key ingredients of chai and let's just be clear, would you say, the main ingredients of chai is ginger and cardamom.
Speaker 2:Yes, I would say so. However, different parts of India do it very differently. So the way that we've always done it because with Gujaratis and in Gujarat they use a lot more ginger and they use a lot more milk and they make it a lot stronger, so the tea itself, the color of the chai, will be darker in in regions like Gujarat and Rajasthan. So you want to boil it for longer, you put extra tea leaves, so that's quite important for us. It's always ginger in Gujarat. So grating fresh ginger into your tea when you're making it, even if you're not using any other spices, it'll be ginger, whereas I think in places like Punjab I feel there's more cardamom and sometimes you will just use only cardamom. We sometimes only use only ginger, but we can add other spices so often we will. Most of the days my mum and dad would add the mix of spices plus fresh ginger, but there are times my dad would just make it with ginger and nothing else.
Speaker 1:When I use a spice mix, I'll always add fresh ginger as well, because that freshness is really. I enjoy the pungency of that and just yeah, and there are ways to make it.
Speaker 2:When you're boiling the hot water, that's when you add the ginger, because sometimes if you add dairy and then add ginger, on top, that will curdle the milk, so you've got to add it in when you're boiling the hot water and then you add the milk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's just explain. So the way to make chai. I don't know, or at least I make it and what it sounds like you're saying is you boil spices in water and you make a decoction, so you're kind of making it concentrate. Then you add the milk.
Speaker 2:Yes, mainly because you want the strength of the spices. So in the hot water that will be boiling points higher, so you will get the strength of those spices. Then you add the milk and the tea and all of that gets added in the water. When you add the water, and also one of the key things I tell people is you will not get the strength of spices unless you grate or pound them. So you want to put them in a pestle and mortar or you want to grate the ginger. Slices of ginger won't do it. Often you get when you order in a hotel. You order ginger and lemon tea and they will give you slices and that does nothing. You've got to grate it or pound it.
Speaker 1:So what do you feel is the difference between grating and pounding ginger?
Speaker 2:Ah, what's the difference?
Speaker 1:If any, do you feel I?
Speaker 2:think pounding if you pound properly is great because you get the juices out and you can pound other spices you can put you know all the different spices in there. When it comes to grating, you will get a lot of juice out of that as well, so I think they can be equal. We often only grate because we have graters which have small things in there, so you can actually grate it quite fine.
Speaker 1:I think that's one of the best ways. I do feel grating enlivens it more than the pounding. Pounding is easier because grating can be hard to wash the grater.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I use the big grater. Oh, you use the big grater, okay.
Speaker 2:So in Indian homes we have these small graters, I know, I know I've never I know those are really easy, because for green ginger that works really well, because the smaller it is, the more, I guess, the more juice you could get out of it right, because it almost becomes a mesh and then pounding. I would just say things like cardamom unless you have the powdered version, or pepper, whole peppers, anything like that. You want to make sure you pound, because otherwise you won't get the flavor from that and cinnamon sticks yes, okay, and which is why powdered spices are easier, in a sense easier.
Speaker 1:But I want to speak about spices, but also a bigger chance of you buying an adulterated spice, because the spice industry is heavily adulterated that's true and the problem with powders is, you don't know, like especially with cardamom, which is a quite a valuable spice, is I wouldn't you know. You really got to know the source if you're buying seeds in powder form. And yeah, I've done a podcast with a guy called ian herbie hemp hill who has a big spice company in australia and he's like one of the most passionate spice enthusiasts I know he travels to all the places.
Speaker 1:He used to do spice tours of the world, particularly in india, used to take people and he really knows it and he's been to all the cardamom auctions. And now that the cardamom auction has, have you ever seen a cardamom auction?
Speaker 2:no, not an auction.
Speaker 1:They now have like more modern methods. I'm going to send you some stuff. I'll put it on the show notes as well.
Speaker 2:I mean the price of cardamom has gone up to another level. I mean, it costs us a lot to buy the cardamom, and actually cardamom I personally feel it's one of the key spices. So without cardamom it doesn't taste right, and there that don't use much, if at all, cardamom. It's a hard one because it's firstly very expensive and secondly, blending it into a fine powder is tricky. So I do it myself. That's the only spice we blend ourselves because we don't want the skin mixed into it otherwise it gets to your throat.
Speaker 2:So if you have the skin, you'd have to sieve it. So we're trying to figure out a way where we don't have to.
Speaker 1:So how do you do it? Are you buying just the seeds, whole? Yeah, just the seeds. But if you sieve it, then why?
Speaker 2:I'm happy to sieve it, but if we're selling it to cafes and restaurants, they just mix it straight in. They just want to make it with hot milk and get it ready. That's why the powder fine is what's selling. That's why a lot of brands skip the cardamom, because it's a tricky spice to work with.
Speaker 1:I would think there's enough cardamom seed powder to buy, but maybe it's the expense, I don't know. So with the dry ginger versus fresh, I mean I find fresh drying is more literally drying. It's more pitta aggravating and the fresh kind of gives that water element, which is why I like it. It kind of makes the chai less drying. Especially if it's got black tea or caffeine, it's going to be even more. Have that chai effect.
Speaker 2:Well, when I studied Chinese medicine, I was told to just drink you know, ginger powder in hot water because it's stronger and it has, you know, one teaspoon of that will have more strength than one teaspoon of the ginger fresh ginger. So I'd love for you to say why, according to Aira, that you should have one or the other, because I get asked that a lot and I think it's different for different people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and look, as you said, like the drying is definitely more strong, but it is more drying so it's more that fire and air element. So it will irritate the vata more, but the water element in the fresh one will keep that unctuous. Also it will balance the dryness effect, especially for pitta people. Ginger is known, as I can't remember the term, but it translates to the universal spice. It's good for all three doshas, but the dry one will irritate pitta in excess.
Speaker 1:So yeah you need to keep. Keep that according to how you feel in the person yeah and another thing you do which is different to me is you boil the sugar in the spices, like with that chai that I gave you what I usually I use, added at the end really, we don't add it, we just put it in, is that?
Speaker 2:in most indian places they do I don't think there is a particular way with the sugar. I think it's just as you like it. But yes, they boil it in because it mixes in properly and that's main reason. You know if you're putting it on top, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:You know, we like everything assimilated in there do you add it, like you say at the beginning, with the spices?
Speaker 2:yeah, wow no, you can put it in later as well. It's just about making sure it melts in there and there's no like particles left. And obviously these days, often when guests come home, you would give them the sugar on top, because there are some people who don't want sugar or they want less sugar. I don't think there's a particular way or right or wrong about that.
Speaker 1:What sugar do you use in chai by Amira.
Speaker 2:Coconut sugar oh beautiful, I love that.
Speaker 1:And yourself.
Speaker 2:At home, you always use coconut in general, no not in general, and I don't use sugar much, so I often make chai without sugar. I don't make chai all the time either, so I just don't tend to use a lot of sugar. Obviously, I eat sugar. There are times when I have chocolate but, I don't often use sugar, so if I am using it, I will either use demerara or coconut. We have both of them.
Speaker 1:What's demerara?
Speaker 2:Demerara is also very brown sugar. I think it's almost like.
Speaker 1:Like rapadura. Maybe Do Like rapadura. Maybe Do you know rapadura no. It's kind of like the South American jaggery.
Speaker 2:Oh, I see Panela.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah Like that Okay. Okay so.
Speaker 2:And jaggery I love. We always have that at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very good.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, anything else with the spices that I want to touch on before we get into the tea. Any other spices you want to hide? Okay, I love saffron. My first cookbook is called saffron. So well, I I just think saffron is such a mood elevating spice that gives you so many other benefits, like it's the happy. It's the happy spice and you don't need much of it. As to how quickly feel the effects, I don't know, but it also calms the brain and I always say, if you have trouble sleeping at night to have nutmeg and saffron in your, that's a great one. And what about?
Speaker 1:preparing saffron, Because there's different ways. Like the Arabs, they have a specific mortar and pestle for grinding the saffron to enliven the constituents. We do it a specific way.
Speaker 2:So we never have saffron like fresh you just put it in something. No, no we don't take it from the. You know the long strands. What we do is we take the. We have the back of a steel plate. We heat that up, the steel plate. We heat it up on the on the stove and then switch off the flame and when it's a little bit hot, we put the saffron on there so it doesn't burn, it's not too hot.
Speaker 2:Put the saffron on the hot plate for about I don't know 30 seconds to a minute, and once it's been on there it's roasted a little bit and then we just with our fingers, between our fingers, we crumble it and that's the saffron ready. So we keep that ready in the fridge for any other dishes or any drinks or anything, because according to my grandmother or the way we've been brought up, you're not meant to have saffron neat neat it's in the role.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not meant to have a saffron, it's not meant to be goodffron. Neat, neat.
Speaker 2:The raw. Yeah, you're not meant to have saffron. It's not meant to be good for you. As to the science behind that, I can't find anything, but apparently you're not meant to and that's a passed down generation to generation thing. So we always put it on a hot plate, let it roast, not burn. Obviously, you have to be careful with that. Take it and then, just between our hands and fingers, it in, and then it becomes almost like a fine powder and you keep that in the fridge then we keep it in the fridge or in the freezer, ready to use whenever we want to why can't you clean the pantry?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Actually, that's, that's a good, that's a good question. I think it may be because, I don't know, probably, but you probably can keep it in the pantry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every, I don't think spices according to ayurveda, needs to be transformed. So it's the power of agony. You know why we say everything needs to be cooked, even the simple transformation of. You know, soaking something in water will transform it. Or so definitely saffron needs to be, and and I've heard of other things of like soaking saffron in some little bit of water and then it comes out.
Speaker 2:Even in milk. Yeah Well, I don't think that's. That's more. Just, you'll get the flavour more and the longer you leave it. Say, for example, we're making a kheer, which is the rice pudding that's always got saffron and cardamom. If you have kheer today and you have it tomorrow, the saffron colour and flavor will come through more tomorrow, right?
Speaker 2:so in that sense you do want to get that flavor out, because saffron just gives, keeps on giving, and I think roasting it will, the way we do. It gives a lot more color and flavor yeah, that's just the way you would do cumin seeds. You know, if you put those in hot water or you put the roasted ones, it will give you a lot more right that's good or you know how, after a meal we have fennel seeds to like, cool our system and to freshen our breath.
Speaker 2:But usually if you take it out of a pack you'll be chewing it quite raw. We always roast them in the oven with a little bit of salt and turmeric, very nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of my favorite things after meals dry roasted fennel seeds. So that's, that's a good, easy way to prepare saffron. I appreciate that because I think a lot of people don't know how to use saffron and they are just using it raw or adding it to a dish without activating it. So that's important. So with tea, okay, good old black tea and the botanical name Camellia sinensis. Right, so give us a history of the black tea, because it's not well, it is native in India in some ways, but the dominance is from China, right?
Speaker 2:It came from China, in the sense that the British got addicted to tea when they were importing it from China. Not importing it, they were trading it with silver from China, and that got too expensive. So they started growing opium in India and exchanging that for tea. That created the sort of opium wars because the emperor of China didn't want his people getting addicted to opium and so put a ban on opium. But the British kept smuggling it in because they loved tea so much and that caused the opium wars. But as a result, even though the British won the opium wars, they realized that they needed to create a market, or sorry, a source of tea in their own homegrown countries.
Speaker 2:So they decided to do it in India. So they sent a man called Robert Fortune who spoke Mandarin well and wore Chinese clothes and looked Chinese, apparently to China to understand and learn how to make tea and learn all the secrets which he learned, and took some of the seedlings to India with him, realizing when he landed in Assam because that was the best place in terms of climate to grow tea that it was already growing there, but they weren't drinking it. They were sauteing it into a curry with garlic. So they weren't drinking it. And they then realized that the tea seeds that they got from China weren't growing very well in Assam. But the tea in Assam that was growing there already was actually pretty good, so they started using that. But they also then took those seedlings from China to Darje in Assam.
Speaker 2:But the tea in Assam that was growing there already was actually pretty good, so they started using that. But they also then took those seedlings from China to Darjeeling, where it grew really well, and even now, even today, darjeeling tea is the Chinese version of the tea, whereas Assamese tea is Indian tea, so it was growing there, it wasn't being drunk and even though the British then created this you know massive export from India of tea from Assam it wasn't used in India. I think 90 to 95% was being exported.
Speaker 1:Right, so this was in when this is. Is this 1600s, 1700s, 1700s and?
Speaker 2:then it was only well, yeah, 1800s. So it was only in the early 1900s that the British realized they want to create another market for tea and they started marketing tea to Indians.
Speaker 1:How did they market it? Do you know?
Speaker 2:Yes, so they created it was a big marketing campaign and they you know all those lovely posters. You see the old India posters with, like the woman, mother India drinking tea, and those were the sort of posters they created to put all over railway stations and they also were giving free tea out at railway stations and trying to get Indians addicted to it.
Speaker 2:But, the Indians didn't like the flavour of tea A so that's when they started adding things like milk and sugar and spices and differentiating one from the other as well. But secondly, gandhi was against tea because it was an English product in a way. So there were a lot of people who were campaigning against drinking tea at the time. So the Indian addiction to tea happened very much over time. It didn't happen straight away and some people didn't even start drinking until the British left. But if I trace that back and in the book I've written about this if I trace that back, the timeline back to when my grandmother remembers growing up in India and her grandmother making tea in India, it was a similar time when the British started sort of. So in a way way I feel like it was either in tandem or it was even before that. So it's quite hard to really figure out the exact time when the British are marketing it, or did the Indians just start drinking?
Speaker 2:at some point because if it was filtering down to the village, is that quickly? Because my grandmother was in a village then. Then I wonder how that happened. And my grandfather, who was in Uganda, born and brought up in Uganda, his family was drinking tea. So how did that happen? How did it get translated into Right?
Speaker 1:So British were not adding milk, were they?
Speaker 2:I think they did start adding milk here, but it wasn't the way that Indians did it the boiling. None of that happened yes, not initially as well, and actually there are many parts of India where they still don't add, like in Assam, and places they don't add milk.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, do they add spices?
Speaker 2:No, I'm sure there are places that do, but traditionally I think there are people who just have black tea, okay, and they would say that's the proper way of doing it. And we would say the proper way of doing it is ginger and spicy and all of that.
Speaker 1:So it's very different in different parts of india so in 19 sorry, in 1635, if that's right tea was sold in england for six to ten pounds per pound of tea, which is equivalent to the annual rent that the East India Company, which was a private company, paid the British Crown for the whole of Mumbai. So that's about £1,000 to £1,700 per pound of tea in today's prices.
Speaker 2:It was very expensive.
Speaker 1:It was very much for the elite £1,500 per pound of tea, and now it's per pound. The elite one and a half thousand pounds per pound of tea, and now it's per pound. How much does it cost? And you buy tea in pounds like minuscule. Yes okay, so that's when they were trading. So they're trading silver and then opium, amazing.
Speaker 2:So this is how addicted they were to tea. Yeah I know it isn't just amazing, and actually you know it was considered such an elite thing to have and drink Tea parties and Wow yeah.
Speaker 1:It's almost like I don't know, kind of like the cocaine of today, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like it's that kind of very expensive substance, I don't know.
Speaker 2:In a way it was considered obviously a prestige thing but it was also considered medicinal. And it was also considered awakening for the brain, which at the time there weren't stimulants like that right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because peppercorns and all this also had these massive prices and peppercorn rent was a thing where you'd literally give peppercorns for your rent. That was also very expensive.
Speaker 2:There were wars over pepper as well, which I touched on.
Speaker 1:yeah, so then, the I mean it's pretty heartwarming to know that it is native to India and Assam had this plant growing and that's giving over 50% of India's tea production right now. Is that right?
Speaker 2:It's probably more. Assamese tea is more than that, and India accounts for a big percentage of global tea production as well. So there are other countries, of course.
Speaker 1:now, Well it says. Well, I've got that Assam is now the largest tea growing area in the world.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:And 700 million kilograms of tea annually, and Darjeeling tea is less than 1% of India's tea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very small. It's very small and it's considered the champagne of teas.
Speaker 1:Do you feel that Is that your experience?
Speaker 2:I have to say, for me, the love affair, even though the book is called the book of chai my love affairs with spices not with chai, so as not with tea leaves, and while I like tea, for me it's all about the spices, so as to differentiating between different teas and understanding what's better.
Speaker 2:I actually like Indian black tea, because that for me is tea, Whereas Darjeeling is a lighter, fragrant flavor which I don't consider myself a tea connoisseur, as it were, to really appreciate that champagne flavor or the whatever, the very, very refined flavor of Darjeeling tea, the tannins, your Indian palate, is dominating your British palate. Yes, my Indian, you know dark tea, need it to be, strong. If I'm going to make it um, the proper way is how I think of it as the proper you know way of making and for me is all about the masala, the masala jai.
Speaker 2:So even if I'm not going to have tea leaves, I don't mind. Sometimes I just love the spices.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same. A few more spices questions. Say, I pound the spices, like we said ginger, cardamom and I like to add fennel, or some people like to add cinnamon. Whatever you do, you boil it in water, then you strain it and you've got this mix left still in the pot, pretty valuable to just chuck out after one mix, or do you? Is there any use for reusing? I reuse it yeah.
Speaker 2:So I sometimes add I'll make my next cup with it, right, or I will put some hot water in it, so at least I get more of the medicinal benefits from the spices, even if it's not a delicious drink, just because I feel what's the point of throwing it all away? And there's so many. You know places where you go and they make a try and you're like they're using whole spices and firstly you don't even get the flavor from it and secondly it's a waste, like you do. Why would you throw that away, like whole cinnamon sticks and whole?
Speaker 2:cardamom pepper it's I, I prefer, then I. I would just pick it out and take it with me, because you know, indians keep it in a little like pot and then you know, in the middle of a't know wherever they are, they'll take it out and chew on the cardamom or chew on the clove. It's so good for you, right? Clove especially, and cinnamon sticks. If I have a cinnamon stick, I'll just keep chewing on it.
Speaker 2:So I would rather not throw it all that way. Often I'll just chew on cardamom and I will throw it away once all the flavour is gone.
Speaker 1:It's a good replacement to chewing gum or to cigarettes or any people who are snacking a lot, just keep some cardamom pods in a little container and chew it. One thing I noticed in your recipes you don't use a lot of cardamom is what seemed to me. It's like it kind of seemed like one cardamom pod per is it?
Speaker 2:no, it's more like two to three okay I think I've written two, three, I don't know about one maybe I can't remember if I wrote one, but I think it was two to three. Usually, I think, when it comes to cardamom pods, you will get a lot of flavor out of one cardamom. So when you pound it, when you crush it and you boil it, you only really need two to three, or maybe three, three to four. I mean, you can make it stronger. I like to overdo things. No, I love overdoing it. If you think about in a okay say, you're making a pot of tea for yourself and you're gonna put cardamom, powder in it, not, not the pod.
Speaker 2:You would only put less than a quarter teaspoon unless that's the only spice you're using now. That quarter teaspoon or pinch will amount to about two cardamoms.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because when you crush them, that's probably the amount of powder that comes out?
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, Okay, and what do you think of? Well, what's your experience of caffeine-free alternatives to tea? Like I prefer not to use that, I use either Rubos or Dandelion.
Speaker 2:I've not used Dandelion, but I've used Rubos and I like it. I've been looking for Dandelion in the places I've been looking for dandelion in the places I've been staying and it's not a common thing in the tea cabinet. I've seen it somewhere in a health shop, I don't know. It's not a common thing. I do use Rooibos and I like it. I think it's delicious and, you're right, it works really well as a replacement because it gives you that same.
Speaker 1:And when I have Rooibos I like to have it with milk.
Speaker 2:It's got that ability to to be sort of milky, whereas I feel like green tea. I wouldn't put that in milk and it gives a color dandelion, doesn't give the color it doesn't give. That it's not dandelion's quite different, but um, I think it was great, I would use that as an alternative, and I have often used as an alternative um, or just using spices as an alternative, or chicory, but that's more of a coffee alternative right, so chicory is a good one though.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's some good mixes with dandelion and chicory together, and they already do the grinding and roasting.
Speaker 2:I think I've seen that actually.
Speaker 1:I mean, they're coffee alternatives, but I just personally love the bitter herbs.
Speaker 2:I just don't want my teeth to go totally brown when I you know, when you have too much tea and coffee it stains your teeth. And I used to have a lot of tea and coffee.
Speaker 1:Now, I've stopped, and do you drink coffee now?
Speaker 2:Not so much, no, in the last, literally, I would say, nine months, I've really cut down.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I didn't think I ever could, not that I had lots, but I'd like my morning cup, and now I don't.
Speaker 1:That's good, like my morning cup and now I don't, maybe a couple of times a week, if that's great. It's healthy to not become reliant on it and I think chai is a really good alternative for those who want to substitute coffee, for at least if it's. I say to people my patients like who are drinking coffee and relying on it, whether they're relying on it for bowel motions, they're relying on it for energy, and I say, at least one day a week, give it a miss With anything, actually with supplements, with certain, if you can. If you're not taking medication religiously, like one day, give your body a break.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I agree with you, I have a tendency to overdo it, like if I'm having something, I'll just become obsessed with it. Like right now I'm having mangoes and I'm just obsessed.
Speaker 1:Where are your mangoes coming from? We have like all the indian shops in near.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they all have boxes and boxes and boxes with piles of boxes of mangoes, and I mean people are like literally just queuing up to buy them. Wow, um, I mean there's gazillion boxes everywhere it's such like in tea.
Speaker 1:You have like flush systems and different yeah, in mangoes they have. I don't know if it's here, but I I also met an indian community in new zealand and that's what they were like with the mangoes. They're like it's like who can import is like the most popular guy or person, and they have. They literally grade mangoes.
Speaker 2:I didn't know there's so many different there are, there's alfonso and there's this, and it's the indian thing?
Speaker 1:yeah, I've never. Indian definitely has a different relationship with mangoes and different production.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I don't. The only thing is keeping them fresh.
Speaker 1:They they do inject them with something I think so and that way, and that's the only thing enter a country like this is at least in new zealand they were doing. They do this whole fumigation to it all. I mean I'm not a fan of eating imported things anyway.
Speaker 2:I know and Indians do a lot of it the vegetables, the curries like bitter gourd and all these things. They don't grow here. No, so we do have them. Okra, Is it growing near?
Speaker 1:here we have okra, but I think it comes from india, right? So yeah, these are the things, and I I would love to speak a bit about your company, because I'm always fascinated by tea companies or herb companies that are producing large amounts. So we've done interview with the founders of organic india, if you know that brand and and they're producing, like I believe it was something like 300 metric tons of tulsi, dried tulsi, which is holy basil per year and that's dried.
Speaker 1:So they are making quantities. I had a friend of mine used to have a quite a popular chai brand in Australia where she'd sell to all the mainstream supermarkets and you know Australia's small and chai was small. This was maybe eight, eight to ten years ago and she was doing think it was 300, 200 or 300 kilograms of black tea a week. So that was just in the chai blend, the black tea and the spices a whole other story and I just I always get fascinated by like large amounts of spices or herbs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very interesting.
Speaker 1:You know, with all these companies like Organic India, they've really maintained purity. But with anything when you mass produce you have to sacrifice certain things that you wouldn't like, whether it's quality or a way that that herbal spice is being produced. Like with herbology in Ayurveda, we have some formulas that we use which are kind of mass produced or produced on a bigger scale, and we can't get those herbs in the smaller quantities that we do, although at least the way that they produce the herb and farm it like wild harvested herbs which we deal a lot with, the therapeutic herbs we, you know you can only keep that in small batches. There's no room for scaling that.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, do if you would like to share, like the quantities that you're yes, we supply to about 250 cafes in in the UK and a few abroad as well, and the thing is that it gets made in, you know big batches yeah, so it gets made for the next six months, for example, and the quantities do need to increase.
Speaker 2:right now we are doing I think our last batch was used up within four months, which is great, but then it would be approximately two I mean, it's not as big as Organic India be approximately two and a half tons of coconut sugar plus the spices.
Speaker 1:Wow, and what's the ratio Like? What is that? Equal amounts to sugar Spices.
Speaker 2:Not equal amounts, no, it's a larger amount of sugar because spices are so strong Right. So in each cup and also if you're trying to make it palatable to the average person drinking chai in a cafe. You need it, so it is a larger quantity of the sugar even though it's coconut sugar and seven spices, and obviously the proportion of spices is according to. It's just a maths thing. Yes, um, the most prominent spice in the mix is ginger right and then the rest follow, but they're all obviously very, very important black tea, no, no tea no tea.
Speaker 1:No, you've got to try it.
Speaker 2:You've got to make some, yeah, Okay, that's really cool. So it's literally very easy for a barista to make this tea or for you to make it at home and you don't have to add the tea. And there's so many Indians who have come to me even, like two weeks ago we had London Coffee Festival and so many Indians came to our store and they were like how does this not have tea in it? We can't taste that. It doesn't have tea in it Because the spices are so dominant that you don't miss the tea. I mean, forget realising it. I think there are some people who don't realise there's no tea in there, but you don't miss it as well.
Speaker 1:I think ginger plays a really big role in that, because the pungency that kind of really strong will give that hit to people and two or three people.
Speaker 2:You've got it on video. I need to post it. Actually, two or three people came up to us. They were like we're from india and this is like having having the chai on the streets in india. I was like, well, that's amazing, because I wouldn't have even said that, because it's not strong on the tea leaf, so it's amazing that you say that that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy to hear you like with you what you're doing with it, because there's a lot of like. Basically every cafe is now serving chai from Starbucks, but when I'm traveling and I want a chai, first of all, it's a chai latte. It's quite different, but anyway it's like. I look at I say what chai are you using? Mainly because I want to check that there's no honey, because in Urbana when you heat honey, it's considered poison.
Speaker 2:And it doesn't just say that lightly and a lot of like there's a thing I don't know about here, but we have sticky chai, which is honey infused, sometimes just with the spices and like that's just a big no.
Speaker 1:So I want to always go to the cafe and show me what chai you're using, show me the package, and some of them just have the biggest crap ingredients, especially the kind of non-conscious, just a general cafe.
Speaker 2:Most of them are, yes, like Starbucks, and it's just sugar with some decoction of spices which doesn't even translate into a very spicy but a lot of yeah, that's right and also.
Speaker 1:But all these dextrose and all these artificial stuff, stabilizers. So it's really refreshing to see companies just having, like whole ingredients.
Speaker 2:Yeah ours is literally like I could. If you gave me the spices right now and the sugar, I can mix it for you right now. That's exactly what's in our packs.
Speaker 1:There's nothing extra, there's no flavorings or anything okay, I'd like to just share one last thing which I came across at a festival which we just met. I went on a foraging walk.
Speaker 2:Did you and?
Speaker 1:there was a herb called Rose Bay Willow and the botanical name is Chamonereon angustifolium, which is also called bomb weed, which is a nickname given after the London World War II bombs. This weed growed a lot. It's also called Ivan's Chai, which is Ivan, is like the name for John in Russia. Chai, which is Ivan, is like the name for John in Russia, so it was like you know, means every, every man's tea is what it is. So this apparently was Britain's favorite tea before black tea came hundreds of years ago, and it's a plant and it grows everywhere apparently, and I've seen it grow, just not. It's a big weed and that's what they used to use and fascinating.
Speaker 2:Did you try it?
Speaker 1:I have not. I tasted the leaf itself. It was definitely more mild, but I haven't actually made a tea with it.
Speaker 2:I should how, but?
Speaker 1:they. They're fermented, they're dried, they're brewed like traditional tea leaves and especially in eastern Europe it was used. And it was used in Britain when black tea was too expensive, whether it was during wars or war disruptions. So I'll put that in the show notes and if anyone wants to especially in the UK, where it does grow wild everywhere you can try.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's so fascinating, gosh, I don't think I Well, I definitely didn't know that. I didn't come across that in any of my research. Yeah, but the research for this book, oh, like there was just so much to look up. Look up, you know, in terms of history, and it's really fascinating. But but with history, as with, well, in most history, there's a lot of myth to separate from fact and it's hard to figure out what the actual facts are. I had to speak to a lot of historians.
Speaker 1:Right. Quite fascinating, and did you? So what was your main method of research?
Speaker 2:Kew Gardens. Have you been to Kew Gardens? Have you heard of them?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:So the Kew Gardens are the beautiful British gardens which are open for any visitors to go to in Kew which is in Richmond, and what I didn't realise is that next to the Kew Gardens they have the Kew Archives, which is a bit like going to the British Library, but for plant world.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And it's huge, it's it's like five, six floors. It's got every book you could think of in the plant, herb, spice, mushroom, forage, whatever world and they you tell them in advance you're coming, you have to get an appointment and then they keep all the books ready for you. You can't go into the archives. They keep them ready for you on a whole like tray and then they keep all the books ready for you. You can't go into the archives, they keep them ready for you on a whole tray and then you can sit there as long as you want and you can take copies of pages, but you can't take any books out. So I'd just sit there for hours just looking through them. Obviously, google, all of that helped At the time. I don't think ChatGPT. I don't know if it was around or whether I didn't use it, so maybe I would have used it more if it was around. But I literally just looked in the archives and I think that was my main.
Speaker 2:And then, speaking to certain historians, like there was a historian in Delhi there was a historian in US somewhere who's written all about chai and tea, and that was interesting, and they kind of solidified certain things for me or clarified points for me.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, awesome.
Speaker 2:But I mean, that's one part, and then obviously I don't know if you've come across any of the stories, but a third of the book is my own personal travel journeys around india, which, I sort of chai has become an excuse to tell those stories, do you?
Speaker 2:see what I mean and then adding more context to those stories, whether it's me traveling for my spiritual journeys that I go to ind, india for, or my grandmother growing up in India, who relayed all her stories to me and then I fleshed them out by just asking her more details and it was a real reason to go into her mind and her memories. Which stories you know, stories that could be lost. So there's a lot of treasure trove of stories in that beautiful.
Speaker 1:And one last thing with in the ayurveda, when we boil milk, we'll generally do it three times. Um, it kind of like it's about to foam up and fall out the pot. Then we turn it off and let it settle for one or two seconds, it's one or two minutes or less, and do that three times. And what it does is it releases the doshas from the milk, the three doshas so remove the heavy congesting mucus, damp, cold qualities of milk that some people complain about.
Speaker 1:I get mucus, I get hay fever. So did you see? Just people practice that. I didn't know the reason.
Speaker 2:That's why I say why, but we all do it right there's no, there's no indian that doesn't do that, but I didn't know the reason for it they do it three times, and that's what that word means. You know, I was telling you we started this podcast off with what I drank growing up Ukar. Ukar means boiling. It means it goes up but it doesn't boil over, and so when I put the say, for example, I'm putting the tea in boil, my mom will say which means have you boiled it properly?
Speaker 2:so means boil properly so when you, if you don't boil it properly, you can sort of tell. So it's about, um, it's about making sure that on a low heat you let it simmer and then you increase the heat so it goes to the top, then decrease increase it, so it goes to the top. So at least you're right two or three times we do it beautiful. We always do it two or three times, but again, no, no idea as to the reason why we did that other than making it strong?
Speaker 2:and making sure that the flavour and the colour comes perfectly.
Speaker 1:My teachers always say you know, ayurveda is universal, but one of the reasons it's so strong in India is because of the food and the kitchen. They've maintained that wisdom Because Ayurveda is in Greek, greek, it's in Persia, it's everywhere, because it's the principles of nature.
Speaker 2:so the Indians, so many of them, practice Ayurveda without knowing, without knowing, yeah, I mean, you just do these things and you always do them, whether it's sort of the way you make your curry with the mustard seeds and cumin seeds, and there's always a and again. There's a reason for that, because one balances out the other, or, you know, not adding too much. You don't want to overdo things, like people like oh, turmeric, let's put lots of it, but no, you're meant to put a pinch and all these things, and there are reasons for these things.
Speaker 2:But as to understanding those reasons, unless you study ayurveda or you know these things, you're not going to know and you don't have to know.
Speaker 1:But if you're, if you're fully surrendered and you follow your grandmother's instructions Instinct. Beautiful. Well, if I ever wrote a book on beverages, I would probably write the book of lassi or the book of buttermilk. Yeah, because my favorite beverage is buttermilk or lassi.
Speaker 2:I've actually included lassis in my book which I was against doing that.
Speaker 2:In the book of chai yeah yeah, yeah, I don't know why we did that, see, I wasn't really into doing that. My editor really wanted to include them and I don't know why we did it, but we did end up including them because of the spices. They've all got some level of spice in them. So, whether it's a sweet rose and you know, lassi, or a mint one, or a cumin one yeah, a ginger cumin and we've included some lassis and I was like let's just scrap the lassi section and she was like no, no, no and I was like, but there's no reason to put them in this book on chai.
Speaker 2:We ended up keeping them but, it's because it's also a celebration of spices about how spices are used in drinks. Yeah, beautiful that's nice and actually the western interpretation of chai, even though chai means tea, is not tea. It's this Indian drink with spices. So actually the western interpretation of what chai means tea is not tea. It's this indian drink with spices. So actually the western interpretation of what chai means is more about the spices than the tea right, yeah, beautiful, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks so much thank you people are inspired to make chai, to use spices in their life and maybe become less reliant on certain stimulants and be more self-sufficient with natural whole herbs and spices.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:And so people want to buy your chai. Can they buy it online? They?
Speaker 2:can. It's in the UK at the moment and in various cafes we work with they also retail it, but it's on Amazon and on Deli D-E-L-L-I. But if you just go to our website, chaibymiracom, with a M-I-R-A Chai by Mira, that will give you all the links where you can buy it, and you can also get the book online as well.
Speaker 1:And your Instagram is miramanic. If you want to follow some knowledge Exactly miramanic and chai by mira. I'm in chai by Mira. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you so much Beautiful.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you want to keep the ball rolling and listen to an episode all about spices, check out Vital Vader Podcast, Episode 27, the Ancient and Stimulating Spice Industry with Ian Herbie Hemphill, who is literally an Australian foodie legend. He's been educating us about spices and herbs for over half a century. He's three generations of herbs and spices the Hemphills as they are. So check out that episode with good old Herbie. It's a banger of an episode and I hope you enjoy all the other episodes on this show of health, of consciousness, of spirituality. If you want to be more in the loop of special offers, in-person events, my travels, you can check out the Vital Veda newsletter. Sign up on vitalvedacomau. Much love.