Sun, Skin & Breasts: Renegade Health | Nadine Artemis #128

On this episode Nadine Artemis and Dylan Smith, two sun-worshiping natural health practitioners, explore the sun's healing potential, particularly focussing on its influence on our lifestyle, skin vitality, breast health as well as overall health. ☀️💛

Discover the transformative power of natural air, water, and grounding with Earth's energies, unraveling ancient wisdom and modern biohacks, including the wonders of red light therapy. 

This episode is an invitation to harmonise your life with the natural world, a call to bask in the glow of holistic health.

Venturing into the realms of natural sun care and women's health, we debunk myths and provide natural solutions. From the protective qualities of botanical oils to nurturing the body's microbiome, we offer skincare and sun protection and pro-collaboration tips.

So, draw back the curtains, let the sunlight in, and join us for a conversation that promises to illuminate the path to a healthier, more radiant you. It's time to embrace holistic health—nourish your body, elevate your spirit, and shine from within.

IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
🌞 Sūrya & Sun Exposure
🌞 Heliotherapy (Sun Therapy)
🌞 Melatonin Production & The Sun
🌞 Breast Health and Empowering Women
🌞 Hygiene Practices and Natural Smells
🌞 Vaginal Microbiome and Lubricants

ABOUT OUR GUEST: Nadine Artemis

Nadine Artemis, beauty philosopher, aroma-cologist, and botanical muse, shaping plant-intelligence into palpable consecrations to blush senses and muse imaginations.
Founder of Living Libations, where she crafts elegant formulations and healing creations from botanicals that have skin glowing around the world.

Author of Renegade Beauty and Holistic Dental Care: The Complete Guide to Healthy Teeth and Gums. 

Nadine opened North America’s first full concept aromatherapy store, Osmosis, in 1994.

Her concept of Renegade Beauty encourages effortlessness and inspires people to rethink conventional notions of beauty and wellness. where she creates products that have received rave receives by various esteemed publications. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

We need to stop fearing the sun as a health threat. We need to re-establish the fundamental human-sun relationship that is physically rejuvenating, spiritually uplifting and life-giving. Welcome to the Vital Veda Show. I am your host, dylan Smith. I'm an Ayurvedic practitioner and holistic health educator. I'm very glad for you to join me today, on a new day, with a once again the same sun turning up every day, never late, always reliable, always unconditionally showing up and shining and giving its energy to you and to me, right now, whenever you listen to this, whether it is in the same year of recording this, 2023, or it's on another day, another year.

Speaker 1: 0:54

The sun is that unconditional, loving, sentient being who gives and gives, and, in Ayurveda, the signs of life, the mother of medicines. We call this quality in something, including in any being or any person. We call this quality satva, and satva means pure, unconditional love, and you can have satva in different people, in different foods, in different objects, herbs and different beings like the sun, and I personally am someone who is constantly developing my relationship with the sun and has done so, particularly in the past decade, in a much more rich way that I used to, and also my guest joining me, natin Artemis, is also a fellow sun worshipper, a fellow sun enthusiastic health practitioner who also researches the science of the sun and as understanding the mechanics of how the sun influences health and, overall, in a positive health, giving way and how to operate and relate with the sun in that way. Natin is a beauty philosopher, an aromacologist and a botanical muse who shapes plant intelligence into palpable, constant creations to blush senses and use imaginations. She's the founder of living libations, where she crafts elegant formulations and healing creations from botanicals that have skins glowing around the world, and you may know it, but it's a brand where people who get these products become quite long term devoted customers. She's the author of Renegade Beauty and Holistic Dental Care, the complete guide to healthy teeth and gums. She opened North America's first full concept aromatherapy store in 1994. And her concept of Renegade Beauty encourages effortlessness and inspires people to rethink conventional notions of beauty and wellness. So we talk about that, we talk about sun, we talk about skin health, we talk about breast health, breast cancer, melatonin, hormone replacement therapy, washing, bathing, vaginal health, vaginal microbiome, odors, perfumes, all that.

Speaker 1: 3:13

So I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you do leave a review on iTunes tag VitalVator, tag Living Libations, nadine Artemis, let us know what you think. Listen to the end for some extra juicy resources. Enjoy. Okay, nadine. Welcome to the VitalVator show. The first question I ask to every guest is what is your morning routine? What did you do today?

Speaker 2: 3:39

Well, what I like to do is and what I did today I usually wake up before the sunrise and then I'll, like you know, do a biohacking thing, which is usually like some PMF sorry, pemf, I say it's fast and red light to get in, you know, just to make sure if the because in case the sun is like super cloudy or you know, or it's like the middle of winter, then I've got that red light, because I think that's just a wonderful first morning thing, especially if you woken up a bit early, just kind of it's like and I'm kind of going back into like just being surrounded by the red light.

Speaker 2: 4:16

It's just very meditative. So I like the first thing to be very meditative and then I'm catching the sunrise, but of course it, you know, like in the middle of summer it was practically like 440 coming up in the morning. Now it's eight o'clock, you know, which is just such a huge difference with 8am, which is, you know, so we've lost already like three hours of light on the morning end, and then that that I love, you know. So, hopefully, you know it's it's like it is cold sometimes, but this morning I could still get my feet on the ground and I'm watching, you know, really connecting with that ball rising, looking at it, you know, hopefully about half an hour. If it's the summer then hopefully I'm like extending that time in the sun and, you know, even doing like an hour or so there, you know, then getting to eating and working.

Speaker 1: 5:09

What do you do in the sun when you're in the early morning sun?

Speaker 2: 5:12

I'm just hanging out Like it's just, it's just very. It's not like you're like meditating, meditating, but it is meditative, if that makes sense. I'm just like there and nature and like hearing the sounds, you know, the crickets, the bullfrogs, the loons, whatever is going on there. We even made a little sunrise thing, so we made a dock. It's just like a little square dock with a chaise lounge on it, with an electric motor, and then we can just, you know, go out into the mist or yeah, we live on a lake, so it's all about, yeah, like where's the sun, how can we capture it?

Speaker 2: 5:48

And then our vitamin D is about to go in like one more week. We've got one more week left than it goes for three months. So then I'm sure you know, probably getting a little bit of work done and then going back out if it's sunny to get some vitamin D time in.

Speaker 1: 6:04

Okay, so so many things I want to talk just there. First of all, I love how you have designed your home to implement these health Practices and also, in honor of the Sun, it's us as well. We're not as developed in in how much we can renovate and how big of a home, but we've made a pontoon. We live in a creek similar to a lake, and we've made that on the in the west. So we meditate there in the first day, morning and afternoon, and that's yeah, morning. We still have to create more on the east side of our house. We have to create more in our front yard. Oh, you know, we've made our garden, but we need to next make yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:45

And just a place to sunbathe and Prouning the trees the right way, like we definitely design our home In according to the Sun and particularly how we can sunbathe maximum. And in the middle of the day we work at this part, we work outside at this part and then at later hours we have to move to this area.

Speaker 2: 7:04

So and then like around the land we have like like spots that we've created, like in the summer, the Sun, Some people, and even I was speaking to a friend who writes books.

Speaker 1: 7:19

She's a big author and it's like she's designed in her house by certain things when creating their homes. Yeah, so starting to pride, make a place for doing oil massage, because we do that every day. What other things have you created in your home for a heliport, like someone?

Speaker 2: 7:37

I want to say to people listening like as well. We've been here for 17 years and also was our intention when we came. So it like it can be quite deep and then you're getting to learn the rhythms and all that. So, just in case anybody's feeling like it's not happening too fast, it can take a moment, so sorry. What else do we do to like celebrate like the Sun and the movement?

Speaker 1: 7:56

Oh no, what else have you? Not only Sun, but have you created anything else in your home? Oh yeah, order unique designs in accordance To your health rituals and health practices for sure.

Speaker 2: 8:07

There's like the different areas to sunbathe like. So in February I'm actually like up here because I could just open the. It's cold, it could be like minus, right, so I can like still be inside but getting the Sun. But like come April this is way too hot. So we have like different areas to go to. And then we had a storage room and then we renovated it to like Not really renovated, but we cleared out the storage stuff and then made it into like kind of like our version of a medispa, you know. So it's got like an ozonated sauna. We've got the red light therapy there, pulse, electromagnetic frequency.

Speaker 2: 8:46

The thing I like about like some of the biohacking equipment is that, well, in my book, renegade Beauty, the main sort of thesis is like to really revive our beings, we need to engage with the elements. This is not really about another bottle of cream or supplement I mean, you know that is Probably in there but to really get that foundational Sort of union with the universe. It's we've got to kind of reconnect with the cosmos through the elements and what's cool is that it's not However many years ago where we're surviving the elements. We generally all have like some shelter, running water, now you know. So now we can engage with the elements in a different way, you know, in a little bit more of a luxury way, so to speak, because we're not surviving it. So that's, you know about getting the sun in or in the biohacking, that sort of red light, or you know Not having the blue light at night. And then air, so you know fresh air, clean home air, you know which could be a variety things, just making sure a you don't have mold and maybe you're adding things back into the air like essential oils or you know air filter kind of things.

Speaker 2: 10:05

And then water, so making sure you have a good water source to bathe and to be in, to hopefully jump in the lake or the ocean and Also do that. But also like having, you know, filtered water if you need it or whatever you need to do to get better water at home If that's needed. And then you know you can like have baths and like frankincense and magnesium flakes or you know that kind of thing. So you're engaging with the water.

Speaker 2: 10:32

And then the earth. So the bounty of the food Lying on the earth, standing on the earth, you know, walking in the forest, or like you know, anointing the body with the beautiful gifts from the earth, like oiling the body, massaging, with the beautiful bounty of botanicals and yeah, so those elements, so I, like you know, so it's like Whatever you can do to realistically and then aim higher for reality, you know, to bring those into your life, because I really feel like a, it's like upleveling your engagement with whatever you know made everything connecting to the cosmos in that way and you know, I think that's just a Good foundation for being a human on the planet is like those elements are here for us to nurture us.

Speaker 1: 11:28

Beautiful and I love how you said Aiming being realistic, aiming high, because I think how interact with these elements in a refined way, in a highest value we can. Because you can look at Australia they have heaters like they sell heaters in hardware stores and the heaters a screen. It's a. It's like a screen of a fire, it's like a picture, it's like a video fire. I'm like is this what we're going to? Is this gonna be the fire element in the future? Because we don't have fire anymore. We're gonna be getting artificial.

Speaker 2: 11:58

It's just no infrared.

Speaker 1: 12:00

No, exactly this is a way of interacting with the fire element, but on a very low grade level.

Speaker 2: 12:06

Yeah, and that a lot of the biohacking stuff kind of concentrates the elements, you know, even if it's like bringing in hydrogen or ozone, you know, the pulse, electromagnetic frequencies, the red light, you know, I'm you know for a general, and so that's what's cool. So then we're taking you know, then that's sort of like a good use of the technology. They're then getting further away from who we are.

Speaker 1: 12:29

Your vitamin D is lasting, so I'm curious about that. Living in Canada, like we don't have the cold at all, like you do, so does your vitamin D stores from summer last, and do you need to take supplements in winter?

Speaker 2: 12:41

So what's great is, a few years ago I started doing the D-Minder app, which is a great. It's a simple app made by like a grassroots vitamin D company. So it's it's nice, it's simple, and then anytime I go in the sun I'll track that and then it calculates it or if I do have a supplement. But I'm good, like you know, sort of March till, so I'm good now, but it will run out come December. So kind of like. I feel like and it's really interesting because you know, we have the Sun all summer, we have it for nine months and I'm really like dedicated to getting that time in and it's still Like. It's not like, yeah, it's still like I've got a work not work out, but you know what I mean like the levels aren't like just always so juicy. So I really feel like, if that's my level of commitment, you know, obviously most people here just really Need a lot more sunshine and vitamin D Because it doesn't last that long. So I'll get I'm all get, you know filled up through the summer, but I am running out by December. So come November, like we've got one more week left then I will start supplementing, because I have found other winters, you know, especially come January when I'm even more run out of the vitamin D. Yeah, that's just, you can just feel more vulnerable to viruses and stuff. So, definitely supplement, you know, always doing with a D3, with a K2, but it's really important to get the Sun and skin exposure, no matter where you are, is bringing that in as part of your vitamin D strategy. And I, I think you know most Canadians and probably most people around the world if, unless they're, you know, living in Australia, I'm really focusing on the Sun You're gonna need both, because the amount and it can't, you can't just get like it's not 20 minutes a day. I think that's sort of a bit of a modern. You know, yeah, just sunshine, 20 minutes a day. Well, like when, you know, is it at 9 or 9, 30 in the morning? Because that's not enough at all. You know I'm out like mid-summer. You know like 11 till noon, 11 to 12, 30 bringing it in. And yeah, it's not just like you can't just get that 20 minutes in and think you're gonna have enough vitamin D at all and it is really essential for so much. You know so many of our gene expressions for dental health. I mean even things like bruxism and teeth grinding. It's looking like that is really stemming from a deficiency in D and like the biggest cause of juvenile diabetes, for example, is a lack of vitamin D in pregnant moms. So it is really key and you always want to combine it like get a D3k2 combo.

Speaker 2: 15:29

But the magic of the Sun hitting your skin is, you know, such an alchemical thing and our skin was literally designed to be exposed to the Sun's rays. You know not to be overexposed, hopefully, but we do need that engagement because it's a different type of vitamin D. It's a water soluble type of vitamin D. It creates a very healthy form of a cholesterol sulfate. You're also increasing things like antimicrobial peptides and catholicidins, which are just so good for the immune system. And I'm sure for the next hundred years we're gonna still be learning more about what the Sun, you know, in our skin is doing.

Speaker 2: 16:06

And also the eyes. The eyes need the Sun. Studies have shown and it was started in the in the 20s, the 1920s, dr Auguste Rolier. He had, like in Lysanne, switzerland, heliotherapy like hospital where people would go from all over Europe to cure things like tuberculosis and stuff and it's a. You can look at pictures in Google. It's really cool. It's like a kind of a hospital setting but with huge verandahs and everybody's on their beds outside. Or the kids are like out kind of in these little like snow beds and they're kind of wearing diapers to get that exposure. And you can even see some before and afters of kids children that had rickets and you know they're their spine and their bones. You could just see Not like no strength there. And then there's like a Months later or up to a year and you it's black and white photos but you can see a tan and like the bones are strong and you can just see like how vital it is to our health.

Speaker 2: 17:08

But you know, especially in the past hundred years, we're inside more and more and more blue light and Our skin isn't getting what it needs and there's also cones in the eye.

Speaker 2: 17:19

Oh yeah, what I was going to with the Gus really, he found that if you wear your sunglasses you're not getting the benefits of the vitamin D.

Speaker 2: 17:26

So it's important that we have that engagement with our eyes, with the Sun.

Speaker 2: 17:30

It's very good for health. Of course, I'm not talking about staring at it directly at noon, but you're looking in the direction of the Sun and in the sunrise, sun said hours, you've got at least a good half hour where you can be looking at it. And if it's too strong, because you know we kind of our eyes aren't used to so much light and so you maybe you're coming out of your home and squinting, so it's also actually a good way to like not get crow's feet is to allow your eyes to be able to receive a lot of light and so you can just cover one eye and and and look at the Sun and then cover the other one, and that that that'll do the trick and you can build up to it. Yeah, but there's cones in the eyes that just literally they have nothing to do with vision, but they're receiving the light information to feed it directly to the mitochondria, which is the inside ourselves, which is sort of the powerhouse of our health and ourselves.

Speaker 1: 18:23

So we're nourishing that with these light waves, item and D comes in through the eyes.

Speaker 2: 18:29

Oh, no, sorry. No, I mean, I mean it might come through. I'm not sure of all the componentry, but there's just like a whole bunch of other light information that's coming in through the eyes.

Speaker 1: 18:38

I did a post on why sunglasses are unhealthy and that got a bit of pushback, particularly coming from a beach town and a lot of friends who, and community, like to wear sunglasses. But it's really that mental state of wearing sunglasses. It's like in every better. We call it Thomas, or that dullness, that dull energy, inertia energy, depressed energy. Don't want people to see into your eyes. Come on, man, let me see into. Let's be present with each other. I it's in the Vedic system, but uh.

Speaker 2: 19:12

Yes. Yeah, again having your sunglasses if you need them for those moments, uh, what you know. But like, don't make a lifestyle out of it.

Speaker 1: 19:20

And these are the people who go out in the day, and it's too strong, the light is too strong, so that's like a fur.

Speaker 2: 19:26

That's like if it's too strong, then you've got to like that lag. Yeah, and like that means you're. You know your eyes are weak and the muscles around them are weak.

Speaker 1: 19:35

And just to cry, cry and the long that we had in the 80s, my like was Canadian, was called.

Speaker 2: 19:39

I wear my sunglasses at night.

Speaker 1: 19:41

And I yeah exactly.

Speaker 2: 19:43

That's a good time to wear them, and then you can block the blue light.

Speaker 1: 19:48

Just to be clear, like it is good to wear sunglasses in places like the snow, where it is very white.

Speaker 2: 19:54

Or you've got to be driving and something you know you need to see, you know.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Yes, if you struggle with it, if you have vulnerable eyes, for whatever reason, of course, use them.

Speaker 2: 20:04

And sometimes it can just be like a visor right when you're just giving some shade. Dr Auguste Roulier did find that if people were in the shade, they, but they weren't wearing sunglasses they would still receive benefits of the sunlight. So I think that's about the you know a lot. There's so much we don't know about. Again, it's not just vitamin D, there's just the whole light spectrum right, the whole red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, indigo situation. And the morning light is. So you may not be getting a tan or getting vitamin D, but you're getting that early red light, infrared, and that's so key.

Speaker 2: 20:42

And what I learned, just like a few years ago, which I found really fascinating, because we know about melatonin and its secretion of the pineal gland at night, that's only about 5% of the story. What's supposed to be happening is we're supposed to get that red light in the morning and that means you can just be out and about walking your dog. You don't have to. It's not, like you know, stripping down and, like you know, sunbathing, it's just about being outside, getting that morning light. And then that creates an intercellular melatonin. That's sort of this dance partner of the mitochondria and it acts as the body's most potent antioxidant. It's more potent than glutathione, than vitamin E, vitamin C, and it acts as this cooling fluid that from the ATP conversion there's, no matter how healthy you are, there's always like a waste product of oxidants and free radicals, and so it like quenches the free radicals from inside the mitochondria and that's pretty key.

Speaker 1: 21:45

Yeah, that's amazing. We all thought melatonin is mainly secreted at night.

Speaker 2: 21:51

It's got more of a day job than a night job.

Speaker 1: 21:55

And, as you said, like we don't have to look at the direct light, just letting natural light hit our retina. Yes and without a glass right, Without glass in between.

Speaker 2: 22:05

Exactly yeah, because then you're just getting UVA, and UVA without its ultraviolet partner UVB is it's kind of like you know it's not whole, it's like yes and so, and that's interesting because that's what sunscreen does.

Speaker 2: 22:20

So sunscreen splits those rays. Besides the chemicals and all that, it's literally. Then you're putting it on your body and you're it's not, then you're blocking off the UVB, so you're not generating any vitamin D, so there's not much point in being in the sun and then you're just receiving isolated UVA which is skin damaging. So that's like, if you think of like maybe like a trucker and they're like you know, every night on this westerly route and that arm that's by the window is just going to have like more freckles and that kind of stuff because it's just getting the light through the window. Now, of course, in a home you want all kinds of windows and letting the light in and that full spectrum, but you're not going to like sit in front of, like you know, a window. I think you want to be in the ambience of it, but not directly for like long periods like that.

Speaker 1: 23:12

Well, you mentioned that you right now are sitting in your February spot in your house with a window. Is that just for warmth and ambience?

Speaker 2: 23:22

Well, I'm kind of like. I'm like air and light bathing. I'm not getting vitamin D, but I'm getting all the other juice, that like which we know, some of the stuff Like we know like there's that red light, there's the just that beautiful infrared, and then who knows, you know what other juice is getting. But there's studies have shown to. So people that are north of the vitamin D line, which I think is 33 degrees latitude, if they were out in the winter in the morning light, they had elevated immune to fight off viruses, just like people that were getting vitamin D.

Speaker 2: 24:02

So I think there's a lot of secrets in there that we're going to be discovering for thousands of years. And so why not just like capture it all? It could be like you know, I think it like a dream catcher, but you want to want to be like a sun catcher. And then what I was going to say is another key thing about melatonin is it's you can take it during the day because you can use it therapeutically. It doesn't have a negative feedback loop, so it doesn't dull your body's own production like another, like supplementing with other hormones. So that's that's cool.

Speaker 2: 24:36

Yeah, but it's a great sun protection so you can tan but you won't get burnt.

Speaker 1: 24:42

So are you saying that if you take melatonin supplements it is not going to make your pain or gland lazy?

Speaker 2: 24:46

No, it doesn't, and there's like a lot of research for that. Some of my favorite researchers on that are Dr Dr Russell Ryder, r-e-i-t-e-r, and he's been studying melatonin since he was 24 and he's like 80 something now. And Dr John LaRance is also good and he makes his company has these melatonin suppositories. Because I actually like I took it a couple times at night a few years ago and I was like like 30, 40% of the population are like this and you get, you don't sleep, it's got or like you kind of scam.

Speaker 2: 25:20

I felt like you're skimming across your dreams. It's not deep, kind of wake up at three. You kind of wake up feeling a bit hungover, so I wasn't into it at all. And then I was studying about the daytime stuff, so I started taking it in the daytime. So sometimes it might be in the morning and then sometimes I might, as long as I'm taking it like kind of a sunset between like or you know, four to six sort of time, and not like right before bed, then I won't get that kind of hungover thing.

Speaker 2: 25:47

And then during the day, you know, you got to try it like on weekends at first because you can definitely get a bit nappy, you know kind of these like power naps, but once you kind of acclimatize to it, it's really cool because you can, you're totally functional. But it's just like you can just feel there's like, oh, it brings like a inner kind of lubrication to the cells. It just feels like it and it also feels like a good chill, like you know, not in any strange way, but like I don't kind of like CBD ish or just something like hey, it's all right, you know. So that's nice. And so, yeah, taking it before you have like some powerhouse sun sessions, it's really, really nice.

Speaker 1: 26:35

Do you have children, Ladeen?

Speaker 2: 26:37

I do. I have a 16 year old son.

Speaker 1: 26:40

Okay, I would love to ask about babies and sunlight because, as you probably know, in Australia the sun is considered evil.

Speaker 2: 26:49

It's a new PR agency over in Australia.

Speaker 1: 26:52

It needs a shift in the collective consciousness so that people perceive the sun as a divine being who is the very giver of life and health itself.

Speaker 2: 27:00

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 27:01

And just shifting your perception of that will change it, but anyway. So what about babies in sunlight? Yeah, I love when I see a young toddler with a good tan. It just looks so healthy. Let's try it. Let's try it straight from infancy and of course, this is a remedy for jaundice. What do you think about babies in light, like in terms of straight from infancy? I know they say with the to prevent jaundice. I'm speaking about from the first week. They do it all day.

Speaker 2: 27:30

And they used to put lights to help it. Yes, jaundice is still around.

Speaker 1: 27:35

Yeah, yeah, we just. We have a newborn and midwives today recommend to get 10 minutes of sunlight or daylight in the first week to avoid jaundice and especially to treat it if it is already there. Got it, saw it, still some yellow was there? A midwife told me 60% of babies have jaundice. Wow, but that's the spectrum of jaundice. It can be anywhere on the spectrum.

Speaker 2: 27:57

A wife was born at like 530 at night on. It was like on solstice, not that matters, but I'm just telling you. Anyway. So he's born at night and then they, you know, there's that thing with the belly button and stuff and cause you got to make sure that heals obviously. So the next day just brought him right out to the sunlight, just in our arms. They're so tiny and yeah, again, like that we was probably not very long, probably 10 minutes, because they're just so fresh. And then they came back the next day is the midwives do and they're like, what did you do? Like the belly button is totally healed.

Speaker 2: 28:35

I'm like, well, you know, we put on a drop of frankincense, put them in the sun, so yeah, and then you just build it up. And it's kind of the same rules for all the ages. You know you want to start slowly but surely and you start and they're fresh, so it's just it is in those few minute intervals, but you can build on that, just like if somebody is, you know, like at Irish descent and they haven't been in the sun for years, you want to start slowly but surely and in the hours where there is vitamin D, maybe at those beginning hours. So the D-Minder app is great because it will tell you. You put in your longitude, latitude and it will tell you exactly when the UV rays start kicking in and you can measure how many.

Speaker 2: 29:20

I use your creating and that's what you do and you get them used to it. And my son, yeah, like he's never really gotten burnt and that also has given him, like you know, when he's not around you know, an adult that might go. Oh wait, you know, but he's like, he's like done really well because he has that sort of base layer.

Speaker 1: 29:40

Do you measure your vitamin D levels through the D-Mind app?

Speaker 2: 29:43

Yeah, because vitamin D is such a like it's a living thing in your body and it's fluctuating all the time. So you know, even if you, yeah, it's really, it's like kind of a thing that we have to. I mean, you can go a few days without, but we have to be replenishing it, you know, and our diets don't really have it, unless you know there's like rare food that we're not really eating, like, you know, cod liver, liver, like those have sources but nobody's really eating those on a you know a scale that's going to get them sufficient vitamin D. And then if you're eating fortified foods which I don't think you are, you know it's not even the right kind of D that they fortify foods with it's D2, which isn't even it's not really a thing, you know.

Speaker 1: 30:27

So you're not getting blood tests, you're just using the app.

Speaker 2: 30:30

No, I mean I start. You know what I did? I just started at zero, even though I'm sure I had some in me.

Speaker 1: 30:36

Oh, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 30:37

You can totally. I mean, it is advised you get a blood test and you could start with that number, but I'm just like let's just start from scratch, you know. So one time I did go too long and then luckily you can find through some online resources you can get like injectable vitamin D and it's a very easy intramuscular and that was handy, because sometimes you might just need to really give yourself like a 50,000 IU shot to just like get things rolling Okay.

Speaker 1: 31:10

I just want to add there's a little disclaimer if you're going to take your baby out to the sun, please cover their eyes well in their face.

Speaker 2: 31:18

You don't know where they're looking, and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1: 31:20

And also they're just. We want to keep that wound. They've been in darkness for 10 months, so you want to slowly transition them into the light.

Speaker 2: 31:29

I will see you in the beginning like hold them too like in the light you know Sure sure Nobody knows about it.

Speaker 1: 31:35

Toil their bodies beforehand.

Speaker 2: 31:37

You could do that at home right and that's a good protection.

Speaker 1: 31:41

Well, that's my next kind of topic I was going to bring up is skin and one thing I once wrote an article because why a sunbathe is still low in vitamin D. And we were looking at you know, we call them the leatherbacks in the beach where we live. You know those people who are kind of like my idols because they just sit all day and read newspaper and sunbathe.

Speaker 2: 32:02

They look like old beach life.

Speaker 1: 32:05

And but it was because why they're still low in vitamin D is because their skin physiology is quite poor and they can't metabolize the vitamin D well. So I want to talk to you about skin health and because you, of course, are a renowned creator of skincare products, you shape plant intelligence into these beautiful concentrations and so this culture of over sanitization and even with even in the quote unquote natural, you know, beauty industry, natural cosmetics, natural soaps and stuff, it's still happening. So I just want to like kind of put it, get it just straight on the line, and not that we're telling the definitive truth, but just to bring this perspective of kind of what's an ideal ish way to cleanse the body and the skin with soaps and all the parts of the body we can talk about.

Speaker 2: 33:02

Also, like a good vitamin D baseline is also going to help your time in the sun. So it's a bit of a catch-22, because you need the.

Speaker 2: 33:12

D and all that kind of stuff and then soaping, even in general, I recommend, just like you know, bits and pits for the soap, so you know you can scrub your nails. Obviously that's a great thing to do. Wash your hands, scrub your nails, wash your pits. Again, it doesn't have to be every day and then you know, wash your bits, but again that doesn't have to be every day. And you know, hopefully it's a natural soap, like a clay soap or, you know, soap from the farmer's market. And then actually even after that, especially for women, I recommend just also following that with a bit of oil. So what you can do in the bath or shower, just when you get out, you could just put a squirt on a face cloth that's damp and just go over that area or in a cotton pad, and it's just good if it's just a little bit wet, like a damp in the cotton pad, put a squirt of oil and then go over that area and that's just good.

Speaker 2: 34:08

Good hygiene on so many levels. You could use olive oil for that, coconut oil, jojoba oil. We make yoni serums and sheevalingum serums which can be used. But you know, it's also can be quite simple with just some beautiful olive oil and you're kind of just putting that moisture back in because you know, obviously urine is just like acidic. And then toilet paper there's stuff in there, right, and so especially that women you know that just many times a day the toilet paper, you know, hopefully you've got like a natural cotton underwear, because then it's like toilet paper, polyester underwear. It's not a good recipe. And then some kind of harsh fragrant soap and then some kind of like you know, chemical yoni cleanser. That's not a good recipe for that whole microbiome at all and can even be some of the root issues for infertility and stuff which can be a real struggle. So it's like if there's something simple that can be done, you may as well do that. So that's for the soap.

Speaker 2: 35:14

And then if you've been out in the sun you don't soap. You know again, hopefully you're not like we don't need to soap our arms and stuff like ever, unless how they got dirty somehow. But you know what I mean. So and then you don't want to be sopping up after because the vitamin D is like kind of like a fat. You know that's been created. You're creating a cholesterol sulfate, so you want to like let it sink into the skin and let it drink in.

Speaker 2: 35:42

And then I think oil really helps prepare the body, especially if you haven't been out in a while, and like SPF for sunscreen, sun protection factor that term can is only designated or allowed or sanctified for chemical ingredients, so that's, like you know, a whole other class. But botanical oils Again, this is like metaphorically and they range, but like an olive oil, ho ho ba coconut, they kind of have like an SPF of about a six, seven, eight, nine, so it kind you know what I mean, like again, kind of comparing apples to plastic apples. But so it does prepare the body and it helps, like drink in the sun a bit, prepares it, opens the pores. It's really nice if you've been, you know, in the lake or the ocean, to oil up afterwards, sit in the sun, and it just helps the body receive those suns rays a little bit more and prevent it from getting bird.

Speaker 2: 36:51

And then there's that little bit yeah, it gives you that little bit of.

Speaker 2: 36:55

So, if somebody's using, I made a botanical concoction which is richly pigmented with you know ho ho ba and like essential oils to that help even repair, you know, skin cellular damage and they all have shown, like in various studies, really neat things to help the skin receive sunlight, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 37:17

So put that all together and something called everybody loves the sunshine and I'm just bringing that up because it just it helps people extend their time in the sun. So for some people that might be like 10 minutes and if you've got like a great, you know, if you're rocking a good like Mediterranean heritage, that could be all you need all day. And then it brings in and kind of get more of a golden tan and again, you can kind of achieve that a bit even with simple things like olive oil or ho ho ba or combining a little bit coconut oil in there. So it doesn't have to be that complicated. You don't need necessarily what I've made, but it does help just bring in those rays and extend the time in the sun. So it's good for people, especially if they're starting out, to just have that extra lubrication.

Speaker 1: 38:06

Yeah, we're all about lubrication.

Speaker 2: 38:09

And then obviously there's going to be times where, yeah, like, obviously you could get burnt and you don't want to get burnt. Then you know, you could wear a hat where you know, go to the shade, put on a shirt, or we do make one with zinc, which is also pretty easy to make homemade. You know, you could just combine one of those oils with about 20% zinc. You want to do a non, non, oh my God, we're all. It's like a non, I don't losing the words, but it's like a non. Nano is like non coated zinc, because some of the zinc molecules are coated. But anyway, what zinc does, which is that classic, you know, you see the lifeguards with the zinc on their notes you can make it like not be that white, but what that does is a block. It's a true block, and so the rays bounce off your skin, and so that's useful because you can't you know, if you're surfing, you can't, like, just dress up necessarily or wear a hat. So there are times when that's very handy and that would be your natural solution.

Speaker 1: 39:15

You mentioned about washing off after sunbathing. I've heard mixed science around this. After getting sun exposure, some people say you should not jump in the ocean or have a shower because it's going to wash off the vitamin D absorption. But then some people have said that science is not good. So what are your thoughts on that? Like, say, I'm sunbathing all day at the beach for an hour, I've gotten good sun and I'm hot. I want to jump in the ocean.

Speaker 2: 39:40

Yeah, I see. Jump in and out of the creek, the ocean, the lake all you want. What you don't want to do is have a shower in a municipal tap water situation with soap. So enjoy the water, but just don't have like a city shower.

Speaker 1: 39:59

And if you have to, for whatever reason. Maybe your skin is sensitive to the salt water, like I know some people they have to bathe after, because it burns them, because of the skin issues, then you know, having that oil on before the water is going to give again a protection from the water.

Speaker 2: 40:17

I love having like a nice bath or something before sunbathing. It doesn't always work, but then you're, like you know, feeling super clean and then bringing in that fresh sunshine. It's nice but not necessary.

Speaker 1: 40:30

Okay, awesome. And I just want to bring in the smell aspect because, yeah, like this and when you're talking about all the products to the vagina, it's like I feel and I, as you said, fertility like the biggest thing we see in our clinic is fertility issues. We deal every day with people with fertility problems or preconception, if they just want to conceive naturally, oh well, with consciousness I mean, but I just feel like when you were talking people, the women's yonies, that reproductive area is, it's become so sterilized, it's like so sensitive as well, like anything, any pathogen, any bacteria, like they, they it affects and it manifests as a pathogen, and not just in the vaginal orifice, but so many different areas, especially these orifices. Yeah well, that's a good query.

Speaker 2: 41:21

Or oral health. So if you have like gum, you know period, period on oh my God, why don't know the word Anyway, gum disease. So like really basically a dysbiosis with the mouse microbiome. Literally it could mean like a preterm delivery.

Speaker 2: 41:39

So they've really connected that and that's a microbiome thing. And then the yoni microbiome is so key but like we haven't been fostering the kind of environment it needs with our modern hygiene, so a just like again, soap's not bad, but there's a lot of soap, that's just. That is not good. You know, think of all the foaming soapy things with fragrance oils and sodium or sulfate and all that. So there's that issue. Then there's lubrication, like for intercourse. You've got well, spermicide. Obviously it's a side right.

Speaker 2: 42:19

Anything with this, it's going to be killing things. And then, or even what some people feel is natural-ish, like a KY jelly. That A is glycerin base, so it's very high in sugar, so it's like totally a yeast maker. And then studies show with use of KY jelly it makes the. So it does this thing called osmolarity, because there's all this water moisture on the outside, so the cell tries to balance itself and then it releases its own water. So you have this temporary lubrication that leads to like a long-term drought, and what they saw under the microscope is that the vaginal cells shrivel up and they kind of look like these cellular raisins under the microscope from people using KY jelly, and then that also makes cells inside the vagina slough off too early and there's more sort of sloughed off cells, creating an environment that's more susceptible to things like STDs. So that's not a good situation either.

Speaker 2: 43:32

You know there's a lot of natural, beautiful like you could. You know, coke, cacao, butter, coconut oil. I mean, just that is that simple. That'll give you enough lube. But of course none of those things work with condoms because they'll just you know they don't. Vegetable oil and condoms don't mix, but I don't know. So it's not a perfect system. In my book, renegade Beauty, just on a side note, I have like a very extensive footnote on Meme for men's birth control. They did a study with the Indian Army in India and it was very successful. It doesn't lower testosterone. The moment the man stops taking the Meme it's all good. You know there's no delayed to conception, so it seems like a really cool choice.

Speaker 1: 44:22

Is it internal use?

Speaker 2: 44:24

Yeah, it's like just a few capsules a day. That's like it literally seems like what we've always wanted.

Speaker 1: 44:32

Was it an extract or the whole thing?

Speaker 2: 44:34

No, just like the powdered herb.

Speaker 1: 44:36

Wow.

Speaker 2: 44:37

Which is so easy, and there's, you know, there's Ayurvedic.

Speaker 1: 44:40

And yeah, and I just want to say as well, like, for example, I've been taking Meme for years and I had no issues.

Speaker 2: 44:47

Did you go?

Speaker 1: 44:47

off of it. No, but what I was going to say is it was in a formula. So whenever we add herbs in a formula, it changes because we have an entourage effect of balancing certain qualities Like Meme by itself is a lot.

Speaker 2: 45:01

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:01

This was in a formula with about 20 other herbs. Yeah, it's.

Speaker 2: 45:06

Yeah, again, like studies are pretty extensive. I haven't worked with that personally, but it really seems solid. So I feel like I don't know, I feel like that's when everybody's always dreamed about, maybe something the woman doesn't have to do and maybe something that doesn't affect our bodies negatively. And then also I feel and then menstrual care is another area that I feel like can really affect fertility Like obviously there's moments where you've you know you need to feel secure in what's going on down there. But you know, if you could just generally not put anything in there, even like great that the cup, or you know the cup and those things were made and it's more environmentally friendly, but don't, I just like don't put it up there. You know we got to find some other solutions because we just don't need to put man-made objects in there.

Speaker 1: 45:55

Especially at that time during the month. That channel should be unobstructed for blood to flow down and out. I reckon menstrual underwear is a great choice.

Speaker 2: 46:05

Yeah, that's like such an amazing invention is. That is the underwear, and there's like organic types now too, which is amazing.

Speaker 1: 46:13

Right On the topic of woman's health, let's talk breasts, bras, deodorant, breast cancer is super common. I want to first of all empower women to take care for their breast health, because I don't see that enough and at the same time remove the fear of breast cancer, which is so prevalent.

Speaker 2: 46:31

I feel like, yeah, it's like we have these parts of our bodies and then, yeah, then society just kind of makes us get afraid of them. You know like oh, what's lurking, what's in there? There's a lump growing. You know all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1: 46:45

Some women are fearful of their breasts, but simply shifting your relationship to a loving, caring relationship, this creates health, just like if you shift your relationship to the sun, simply seeing it as an ally, a life-giving, health-supporting ally that is open and capable for reciprocal love and care. You receive that support.

Speaker 2: 47:06

And really all of life, like every breath, is a relation to creation. So you may as well have fun with it and know that that's what's going on. And the sun is helpful. Get those breasts in the sun. Having sufficient vitamin D will reduce the chances of breast cancer by 50%, which is huge. That's like, I think, like not drinking alcohol is like a 10% or 15% reduction. So this is pretty huge. Iodine is big. I do write about that extensively in the book. Generally the world population is kind of iodine deficient right now and our thyroids have an iodine-symporter pump. So our thyroids literally need iodine. And if it doesn't get iodine, it will find from fluoride bromide chloride. It will find the molecules and then put those in sort of the parking slots where the iodine is supposed to be, because they're from the same group of halide minerals.

Speaker 1: 48:13

So they look the same, so they'll go to the receptor.

Speaker 2: 48:15

Yeah, for the it's kind of like a lock and key. And so for the thyroid it's thinking that is it and that is in our modern diets way too much and our modern exposure. So you want to have the iodine in there so that those little locks and locks are filled with what it actually needs. And the breasts are the next organ or gland that, next to the thyroid, for women that need iodine and it does seem that especially women that are fibrotic and their breasts might get super tender in menstruation time is a lack of iodine. And as soon as you start bringing those iodine levels up, that tenderness usually totally dissipates and it doesn't mean that anything would develop. But that can be like having fibrotic breasts come 70 years old, you know, might kind of like it's. You know you want to have them not be like that. So if you're feeling that when you're young it's a good time to take care of it, and then breast massage is a great thing. It's just pretty simple. There's instructions in my book but it's, you know, it's just not really a wrong way to do it. It's about getting that lymphatic flow going and then studies have shown too is adding. I have a recipe that if you're adding orange essential oil, and I can't remember the amount it's like I think between five and like seven percent orange oil. It's really high in limeline, which is a natural monoturping, and that has great, great results, and I can't remember all the things from that study, but it's pretty groundbreaking and it even helps, like bring the cells sort of back to their happy place, so to speak. And then the other thing is so you got the massage, definitely like think about bras or like whatever's holding them up. You don't want to have, you know, and there's so many tops now that are just like. You can get an organic cotton with like a five percent lycra, so it has a bit of a stretch and can hold up, you know, many shapes and sizes, without getting into. You don't want to be doing underwire. You know maybe you need it for a moment or special occasion, but it's not like your daily go to. You want to have them kind of free and then, just like, if we broke our arm and but had it in a sling forever, it would atrophy. And so you know, wearing things like that does sort of atrophy the muscles around, and so it's good, you know, to develop those pec muscles and keep your your breasts happy that way.

Speaker 2: 51:01

And then what I wanted to add, because really in the last 30 years there's been such a a move to like eating vegetables and eating a healthy diet, but some of the now we're getting too much of anti nutrients. So things like phytic acid or oxalates, and oxalates will calcify tissues in the body because it's robbing the bones of calcium, basically, and then depositing in the body. So for some it could be kidney stones, for some it's arthritis or eczema. 85% of adults over 50 have oxalates in their thyroid, so it can be a root cause of a lot of issues and they can also cause fibroids and cysts when you have too much oxalates in the diet so you want to go low oxalate. It's not like gluten, where you can just like be no, like gluten free, because oxalates aren't everything, but you don't want to be having like green smoothies with spinach and almond milk. That's like whoa, you know.

Speaker 1: 52:07

And transforming these foods. In Ayurveda we are all about transforming the substance or food before we use it. It is said in Ayurveda blanch spinach in boiling water for about 30 seconds, then chuck the water out, wash the spinach and use it. That significantly removes the oxalate crystals from spinach. Silver beet, new Zealand spinach, ak Warrigal greens, which are high oxalate leafy green vegetables.

Speaker 2: 52:33

Does, and also there's so many green leafy vegetables. You know you could also probably find a lot of other things, but having that like raw spinach, like I'm five leaves, and you've done your whole oxalates for the day, yeah, so you know, and I just feel like now we're not eating seasonally and it's like it can be for some people, all oxalates right, like you know, like every part of their meal, and I just think that's a good. At least it's definitely something that's, you know, been forming and because it's like eat your vegetables right For like 30 years, drink your almond milk.

Speaker 1: 53:11

There's a lot of issues with the green smoothie.

Speaker 2: 53:14

Yes.

Speaker 1: 53:15

Go to the rest for now.

Speaker 2: 53:17

Yes.

Speaker 1: 53:17

Iodine. I personally don't love supplements or nutraceuticals. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:24

I hear you.

Speaker 1: 53:25

They can be useful for acute treatment or short term, but anything you put in your mouth, your liver has to metabolize it, and these nutraceuticals are synthetically made hard to digest and hard to metabolize supplements. I prefer getting these nutrients from foods or from whole herbs.

Speaker 2: 53:41

It's not in our, it's not really in our food anymore because it's not really in the soil. And I love like. Is it a primary thing that our body like functions on and is like a part of us? For like iodine, like almost before we were human it was a part of us, like it kind of helped make us into people. That's a very scientific explanation and so that's what I look to you first Like. It's like we weren't born with like a cat's claw deficiency, but iodine is an essential mineral in the body and so it is key. It is a lot in like things like Dulse seaweed, so it can you know, and I think bladder racks pretty high that type of seaweed, but you can also get it. It is in its natural form, like a nascent iodine and it's just like adding a drop to your water or doing a little shooter.

Speaker 1: 54:33

What about kelp? Is that sufficient?

Speaker 2: 54:36

I think it is too, but then again I'm like you know, with like Fukushima and stuff. You know it's like oh, the seaweeds, you have to get from the right area.

Speaker 1: 54:45

I mean, yeah, we, we harvest our own seaweeds just from the beach here and pretty dry it and grind it. And for those listening, there are companies in Australia who make a business out of harvesting wild golden kelp that is washed up on the shore. They dry it and powder it and sell it. There's some in the South Coast of New South Wales.

Speaker 2: 55:03

Beautiful, yeah, so that's a great way to really get it naturally.

Speaker 1: 55:08

Right.

Speaker 2: 55:09

It's not going to be in your like carrots and stuff.

Speaker 1: 55:12

I want to ask you about a thing which is so common. I see in a lot of patients hormone replacement therapy Again, a hormonal intervention that can be helpful short term for rough menopausal symptoms or other symptoms. However, it weakens the function of the whole endocrine system. Plus, I believe there are links with HRT and cancer and fibroids.

Speaker 2: 55:32

Yeah, there's a distinction between, like this synthetic hormone replacement that your doctor be classic or like maybe your mom was on, and then there is bioidentical, which is better, but I do it does seem like it's a temporary bandage and I'm always trying to think well, you know, what do we do in the body to get it going? And I think things like light is important, like the whole spectrum of light, and because it will dull your own production and we have. Well, actually, I thought we had three types of estrogen, but apparently there's eight which you know. So how are we going to get that right? And then there's progesterone, but then there's the precursors, right which there's DHEA and prognone alone, and so I know that really getting the mitochondria back online is very helpful because that, you know, healthy mitochondria will produce like healthy DHEA, and that's where a lot of hormonal action starts.

Speaker 2: 56:35

Also, as we age, there's the muscle skeletal system, which starts to whatever shrink, you know, the muscles in the bones, and so now what we're learning too, besides the fact that muscles are in Oregon, is that they're also really connected to the endocrine system. So I think, through things like light and keeping you know muscular activity going, keeping the bones going sort of everything underneath it all, rather than just sort of this bandit of a hormone. Again, there is, you know, bioidenticals seem to help a lot of people. But it's always like, well, what can we do to get underneath all of that? Because sometimes, yeah, like if you need, even if you need iron, it's not necessarily about taking iron, it's like the systems around it and the other nutrients and like so that's why it is good just eating like a whole food, because then, you know, we're not just always looking at the parts.

Speaker 1: 57:34

Okay, wonderful. I would like to end off with a more personal question. It's clear that you're very well versed in the science of sun and health and for the listeners, by the way, this is only a taste of the Dean wisdom and around sun knowledge. But talk to us about your spiritual relationship with the sun, if you can put that into words.

Speaker 2: 57:55

Yeah, it might be harder to find the words, although I think I write about it in, like in the book. We've got the science and then that sort of philosophical, spiritual connection. It's all there combined. But to me, and even as a kid, as people are like don't be in the sun, wear the sunscreen, blah, blah, blah, and I'm always like I don't get it, I feel good. It feels good, like it just feels good, like that's my relationship. Is it literally? Is like, dr, feel Good to me.

Speaker 2: 58:28

You know, to see it to be like oh my God, it's a sunny day, always exciting, and to be with it, it just feels like it's just so meditative for lack of a better word to just be basking in it. To me it also kind of makes manifest in a tangible way my relationship to creation, because it's like, again, it's not like the sun created everything, there's something behind the sun, but it does feel like it can kind of be a manifest form where you feel like you're connecting with what's created, like the creator, whatever that means to you, or you know what I mean where you're like, yeah, I'm connecting to the cosmos, I can feel it, and then it just feels like a great time to think, to bask in good thoughts, to have those meditative thoughts. To me it's just like a really good friend.

Speaker 1: 59:29

Beautiful.

Speaker 2: 59:30

Hafiz has this part of a poem. I hope I get it right, but it's like the sun has been my lover for millions of years, you know, and that's what I think. It's like an old friend.

Speaker 1: 59:42

Yes, and with friends good friends, new friends, old friends we want to know their names. We want to know and be enthusiastically interested in their movements, their patterns and the activities that they undergo. Like we spoke about in the beginning, about the property you live on and, for those listening, just your property where you live. What are the sun's paths throughout the different seasons, throughout the day? Take extra curious actions to track, follow and appreciate the pathways of the sun. This simple acknowledgement and reciprocal energy will allow sun energy to circulate more and uplift your physical, mental and spiritual health.

Speaker 2: 1:00:18

It's the great uplifter.

Speaker 1: 1:00:20

Anything else? Yeah, you want to mention, I think. I think just to wrap up in a practical sense. Well, first of all, if you want to learn more, the Dean's website is what? Livinglibrationscom? Yeah, sure, and there's a lot of resources you can see a bunch of. She's been on a bunch of podcasts so you can hear more of her stuff. She goes more depth into all these topics plus more we didn't speak about. We spoke a little bit about oral hygiene, but you've written a whole book on holistic dental care. Holistic dental care the complete guide to healthy teeth and gums. Open North American's first full concept aromatherapy store in 1994, right. So what was that? Selling aromatherapy oil.

Speaker 2: 1:01:03

Yeah, it was like I had been formulating when I was at university. That's when I started and then, yeah, we had over 100 oils and we could, so it was all the things that I'd made, you know, from shampoo to cream to whatever. And then we had over 100 oils at the Sunbar and you could buy things by the drop or we would make perfumes on the spot.

Speaker 1: 1:01:24

This has been like 30 years. How have you witnessed the aromatherapy industry change over the decades? Essential oils are quite common. Now there are big brands like DoTERRA producing a lot of oils. Apparently they are doing it. Sustainability how do you see the market?

Speaker 2: 1:01:41

Well, to me there's still kind of seems like there's the same amount of genuine, authentic essential oils out there you know what I mean which is still a bit of a niche because the production has gone up, but not necessarily how you like. It's kind of like like, you know, like big agriculture taking a crack at it. Or you're taking some real material and then adding menthol or adding, which is very complex process of like. Or you're, instead of selling cinnamon, the authentic cinnamon bark, you're selling casea bark, which smells like it, you know. Or instead of Melissa, it's like a derivative of, like a lemongrass. So there's still a lot of stuff going on that way.

Speaker 1: 1:02:30

What about putting the botanical name on the mug?

Speaker 2: 1:02:32

Yeah, so that helps. Yeah, but it doesn't always mean even that's lining up. Yeah, you see, you want to see a botanical name? We put up, we get, we do third party lab testing so you can just see that whole situation. You want a Latin name. You want to know what country it came from, maybe the viscosity, the color?

Speaker 1: 1:02:51

Yeah, I see companies like doTERRA. I'm not bagging them, I don't know about doTERRA, I cannot say anything because I don't know about them but the amount of oils they are producing, which requires a lot of raw material, flowers or plant material, whatever it is to reduce the refined essential oils, especially certain flowers like rose and jasmine, which creates huge, you need huge amount of flowers to produce this little amount of oil. It has got to be some big agriculture involved.

Speaker 2: 1:03:25

Well, yeah, a lot of the essential oil industry. I mean it started like so if I was, you know, I'm blending back in the 80s and 90s like only like, maybe 5% of the production is like what I'd be using, but they've been around for a while because they're part of the food and flavor industry, right, and maybe they're going to end with something not real, but you're starting with some real material and so, yeah, it's part of perfumery, it's part of flavoring, like licorice, candy, cigarettes, orange juice Apparently they add, like essential oil to orange juice. So there's a big industry around it. That's been before. Essential oils were, like you know, aromatherapy for home use.

Speaker 1: 1:04:12

Thank you so much for coming on.

Speaker 2: 1:04:13

Thank you so much, it was such a pleasure.

Speaker 1: 1:04:19

Hope you enjoyed that podcast episode. If you want to listen to more podcast episodes on the topic of the sun and around the topics of light, you can check out Vital Vita podcast episode number 10, the Sun is a Divine Healer for optimal health. You can check out podcast episode 21 with Matt Maruca and another very heavy research sun worshiper and lover that's called the light diet, quantum health and circadian rhythms. Then we've got podcast episode 69 with Matt Maruca and that is why sunglasses are not healthy and light as the divine healer. And we've got some in-depth articles where I've spilled out the research. Episode one you can check this out on vitalvitacomau blog articles why wearing sunglasses is not healthy. Another one do you really think the sun causes skin cancer? Why are vitamin D levels still low in sunbaters? And the fourth one, one that's more tapping into the subtle, into the Vedic astrology. It's called Suriya Tarpana remedies to enliven sun energy. That is more, when dealing the energetic influences of sun people's astrology chart.

Speaker 1: 1:05:25

You'll find the links to all those podcast episodes and all those articles in the show notes, as always. Sometimes our show notes are even elaborated with more information. We extend what we talk about and touch on in the podcast. We've added more information and more resources and references, so you can check that out. Until next time, much love. Thanks for joining me.